Thinking this approach out, could someone correct me if I have this wrong.
So he gradually increases the energy transfer from the weight to the arm over the course of the drop. But that arm swinging around must have a lot of energy loss due to friction and air resistance.
This loss will rise exponentially with the speed increase right? So in a sense he is holding his energy budget in a very inefficient phase, with high losses.
Two things support this. A) he spent a lot of time trying to make the arm more arodynamic. B) The spool widening at the end, which is essentially changing back down gears, applying more torque, right at the end when you want speed.
An alternative would be to drop the weight, and let it fall unrestricted until it gets to it's highest speed (this would minimise friction and air resistance) and only at the end of its fall, transfer the energy into the arm.
In this case the arm would only need to rotate 180 degrees or whatever, and not waste energy rotating right?
And then, to take this a step further to make this work there would need to be some flexibility or elasticity in the system to take energy from the high speed falling weight to the arm.
And what you have ended up with is something that looks like.... A whip!
He could have also used some kind of chemical reaction contained within a rigid tube to transfer the energy to a projectile, but I think he just really likes trebuchets in particular.
Energy loss from air resistance typically is quadratic, not exponential, with regard to velocity. So it’s worth much less than you’re arguing. And the arm has to rotate from what I can understand, so the end rotational velocity - and hence, rotational energy - would be the same?
Isn't drag either linear (proportional to velocity) or quadratic (proportional to velocity squared) depending on the scenario? But yes quadratic for things at this scale?
Drag is linear with velocity under Stokes' Law which assumes laminar flow and a very very low Reynolds number, and does not apply to ballistic projectiles flying through air.
Aerodynamic drag on the kinds of things that are involved in trebuchets is always quadratic with velocity.
If I'm picturing what you're explaining correctly, I think this would be difficult. Suddenly accelerating the arm from zero to hundreds of mph would put immense stress on the arm, not to mention whatever you're planning on using to transfer that energy (you kinda hand waved that bit).
I think your assessment is correct about the energy losses. I'm just not sure about the fix.
I think the fix is essentially a whip, that's what I meant by elasticity and flexibility.
If you want to accelerate a weight quickly in a single swipe, (simplified) gradually reducing the mass along the length of the whip imparts more kenetic energy at the end (the whip crack).
So the arm would no longer be rigid, although you can see in the OPs video it isn't actually fully rigid.
I strongly suggest you get into trebuchet building! It is a fascinating mixture of art + science. You can start with legos or a few popsicle sticks, paint sticks + screws, etc.
To make things easier, start with an "integrated sling ballistic" (ie: a piece of thread between two lego pieces). Sling release is actually fairly complicated so chop it out!
The arm is generally a rigid lever, and the sling acts exactly as your "gradually reducing mass". In his design you can see the kindof bike gear shape at the axle and eventually coming like an "A" towards the tip (and reducing to "infinite thin-ness" via the string/sling).
After you've built one simple (small) trebuchet, test to failure! How much weight can you stack on it before a component breaks (bucket? arm? axle? sling? frame?). How heavy of an object can you throw before "everything starts messing up"?
My recommendation for ballistics is mini-marshmallow (desktop), regular marshmallow, mega-marshmallow, then switch to "hard" ballistics, eg: mini candy pumpkin (the connoisseurs choice), tennis ball, basket ball, etc.
Once you start throwing dense, solid objects (marbles, golf balls, baseballs) your risk of property damage and injury goes up fairly exponentially, so stick to marshmallows and tennis balls until you feel more comfortable.
Spend lots of time figuring out safe/reliable trigger mechanisms, WITH A SAFETY! For my tennis-ball treb, I did three eyebolts with a dumb screwdriver on a string, and a vise-grip (clamping) on the far side. Eventually, you're trying to safely "release" 100's of pounds that is being held in tension, and if you have a misfire (fail to release trigger) you're potentially approaching a "loaded" machine which is demonstrably "not working right". Lifting/loading 100's of pounds and then having an unlocked trigger (which _also_ may fail) is not safe for anyone.
The arm (or whip) would still have to accelerate from 0 to ~2000+ rpm on half a revolution even though its flexible. So there would still be enormous accelerations even though the whip eventually partly smoothens out the peak acceleration. it would be more like a collision which in turns introduces higher stresses (and probably vibrations too) to the system. Both requiring you to increase the strength + rigidity of the system and hence also increase weight on the arm. Which in turns increases inertia and the "collision" effect.
Not saying its impossible to create a successful system like that, in fact it sounds sort of a natural/organic design that potential could be closer to the optimal design, but it would be more difficult to accomplish and probably need more testing and design iterations. So I think OPs strategy is more simple and pragmatic in this case.
If you remove the arm, is it still a trebuchet? Even the current design is pushing definition of trebuchet. That said, a gravity powered supersonic whip-a-pult would be pretty awesome :)
You'd need to build a very large, very heavy whip, like a chain whip but those only work laying on the ground due to how heavy they are, because the mass at the very end of a whip gets going so fast /because/ it's extremely light compared to the rest of the whip. So scaling up the weight to even a few grams of projectile means the rest of the whip gets very heavy.
He talks about reducing the drag by improving the aerodynamics of various components and got a 17.8% increase in it's RPM with just a leading edge profile and wrapping it in mylar.
The big issue in your proposed version is building an arm that is light enough to not absorb a lot of energy (it still needs to be rotating at the same speed as the progressive version in the video) but rigid enough to survive that sudden acceleration. My bet is you'd lose way more to the arm flexing and the added weight than you would the benefit of not dealing with aerodynamic losses.
>And what you have ended up with is something that looks like.... A whip!
Had a similar feeling come to me as I watched this video a few weeks ago. It made me really want to see someone make a whip-based trebuchet that uses a big spring like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkQZU-CBwhk
Whips work because they gradually get lighter and lighter along their length meaning the same energy as it propagates down the length results in higher and higher speeds. Strapping a projectile to the end throws all of that off unless you make the whip extremely heavy to compensate.
Not sure if you watched the video, but the chain they're using is extremely heavy. I would think the projectile would be on the order of one of the single chain links at the end of the small side.
A 3d printed ball like in the OPs video would only be less than 3grams I imagine.
Either way, the weight of the whip is hardly important right, as you are just doing an energy transfer from the falling weight into the small ball, the lighter the whip the better, as long as it doesn't break. If the whip is heavier, it will soak up the energy budget in momentum
So what you're saying is he should extend the drop height a bit to run a vacuum pump before engaging? Sounds like he's on the path to launch some satellites!
We've started calling it "Human on the hook" instead of human in the loop in work.
It is more accurate, in terms of, it only matters when something goes wrong.
Edit:"On the hook" is a general expression that means if something goes wrong it lands on you as the responsibile party, generally in a negative way. As in, if it goes right, you don't get kudos, if it goes wrong, you're on the hook for it
That's perfect, I will use that term from now on whenever somebody proposes any kind of automation and will see how often somebody will try to correct me.
Hi Simon, nice article. The parent there may be making the same assumption I am, that large enterprise _never_ pays sticker price.
Also, to just color in the picture here, as I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, there is a very large Saas company at the moment who has given everyone unlimited tokens on Claude. And they have a dashboard showing who spends the most. So the "budget" went from about USD500 per per person (split between Claude and cursor) in Jan to... Well a soft limit of USD100k... Per month... Per person.
People can still see the top line sticker price on their spend, but honestly I can't believe that the Saas is paying that full price when the invoice comes in.
That said, there are some finance reports which are probably dropping soon where we will find out!
> The parent there may be making the same assumption I am, that large enterprise _never_ pays sticker price.
I shared that assumption until yesterday, when I found out that it wasn't holding for LLM pricing from OpenAI and Anthropic. That's what inspired me to write this piece.
I think those token leaderboards are an obviously terrible idea and will go extinct very quickly now that people are paying attention to costs.
But the feature list at https://claude.com/pricing#team-&-enterprise literally lists "tiered incentives on committed spend" and "non-standard terms" as perks of the sales-assisted Enterprise plan. Maybe "non-standard terms" could mean "we dance for you if you pay", but what would "tiered incentives on committed spend" mean besides "we can negotiate on price if you bring the volume"
Volume discounts may be available for high-volume users. These are negotiated on a case-by-case basis.
* Standard tiers use the pricing shown in Model pricing
* Enterprise customers can contact sales for custom pricing
And there are discounts available through "Claude Platform on AWS":
Anthropic rates your token usage in USD at standard per-model, per-feature rates, applies any negotiated discount, converts the result to CCUs at $0.01 per CCU, and reports the CCU quantity to AWS Marketplace hourly. Your AWS bill shows a single CCU line item.
> With the pricing change, customers of Claude Enterprise, a two-year-old bundle of products meant for large companies that now includes Claude Code and its work assistant, Claude Cowork, will have to pay for the amount of computing capacity they consume while using the software on top of a monthly flat fee of $20 per user, an Anthropic spokesperson confirmed.
The sentence you quoted doesn't say anything about the token price for enterprises matching the sticker price. It just says that enterprises are paying a consumption based price (presumably billed as some $/token), on top of a per-seat fee.
> I found out that it wasn't holding for LLM pricing
You're correct. When a type of cloud service grows large enough and has a few competitive suppliers, enterprise pricing tends to coalesce with the large buyers paying around the same price for the same thing. While that might be lower than the publicly cited rate card, the private price similarly large customers pay ends up being similar.
One reason is that the very largest, long-term enterprise customers are so valuable, they can command MFN clauses ensuring no one else is paying substantially less for the same thing, then the rest of the rate card for smaller customers flows down from that. There's a strong disincentive for vendors to cheat or allow big disparities between similar classes of customers because the number of people involved on both sides of these deals is large enough that word will get around eventually.
Large scale enterprise sales and purchasing in a given sector tends to be rather circular. Account execs move to other vendors and call on the same customers, while purchasing agents can move to other customer firms. Personal relationships, reputation and credibility matter. Lying to screw a large customer over just to make one commission or quarterly quota can be a very bad long-term career move. Sometimes purchasing agents or executives quietly compare notes off-the-record with their peers from other similarly-sized firms. After dinner drinks at industry association meetings and trade shows can be quite productive in terms of verbally exchanging 'market insight' with peers.
When there are significant pricing differences, its usually due to different volume commitments, SLA/QoS guarantees, payment terms and other material factors which justify the difference. Source: been there, done that inside a top ten valley tech company. Once was in a meeting where a newly minted EVP tried to get a long-time senior account exec to pressure a huge customer by being semi-dishonest. The account exec schooled the EVP on the fact that the EVP could only make him unemployed for about 8 hours but that huge customer not wanting to work with him could make him unemployed forever. :-)
Check your mouse focus settings in your desktop environment (gnome/KDE/whatever).
There may be an option called mouse stealing prevention or something, but if you have a look you should hopefully see it. On xfce it's in its own tab in the mouse menu
What do you mean by copied? Ireland was colonised by the English for many years, and was part of their common law system during that period.
When it became independent, all laws weren't suddenly repealed, some were just ammended over time (as any common law system does). It's my understanding that Irish Courts can still refer to court cases from other common law countries in terms of precidence, even now
As you say, Irish law is a “fork” of the jurisprudence system established by British rule. However, both Norwich Pharmacal and Anton Pillar orders are much more recent than Irish independence so it seems that we have since adopted both of these orders into our legal system (I am not a lawyer and only just learned of their existence today).
The Wikipedia article on Anton Piller orders¹ has this to say about their use in Ireland:
> Anton Piller orders have been granted by the High Court in William A. Grogan (copyright owner of RAMDIS) v. Monaghan Electrical Ltd & Michael Traynor (1998) related to an unlicensed copy of the RAMDIS software system, Joblin-Purser v. Jackman and Microsoft v. Brightpoint, but the issue has not come before the Supreme Court and, owing to the civil nature of the order and the strong protection given to the family home in the constitution, it currently exists in something of a grey area.
Genuine question, when people talk about apple silicon being fast, is the comparison to windows intel laptops, or Mac intel architecture?
Because, when running a Linux intel laptop, even with crowd strike and a LOT of corporate ware, there is no slowness.
When blogs talk about "fast" like this I always assumed it was for heavy lifting, such as video editing or AI stuff, not just day to day regular stuff.
I'm confused, is there a speed difference in day to day corporate work between new Macs and new Linux laptops?
I use pretty much all platforms and architectures as my "daily drivers" - x64, Apple Silicon, and ARM Cortex, with various mixtures of Linux/Mac/Windows.
When Apple released Apple Silicon, it was a huge breath of fresh air - suddenly the web became snappy again! And the battery lasted forever! Software has bloated to slow down MacBooks again, RAM can often be a major limiting factor in performance, and battery life is more variable now.
Intel is finally catching up to Apple for the first time since 2020. Panther Lake is very competitive on everything except single-core performance (including battery life). Panther Lake CPU's arguably have better features as well - Intel QSV is great if you compile ffmpeg to use it for encoding, and it's easier to use local AI models with OpenVINO than it is to figure out how to use the Apple NPU's. Intel has better tools for sampling/tracing performance analysis, and you can actually see you're loading the iGPU (which is quite performant) and how much VRAM you're using. Last I looked, there was still no way to actually check if an AI model was running on Apple's CPU, GPU, or NPU. The iGPU's can also be configured to use varying amounts of system RAM - I'm not sure how that compares to Apple's unified memory for effective VRAM, and Apple has higher memory bandwidth/lower latency.
I'm not saying that Intel has matched Apple, but it's competitive in the latest generation.
This was the same for me. M4 Pro is my first Macbook ever and it's actually incredible how much I prefer the daily driving experience versus my brand new 9800x3d/RTX 5080 desktop, or my work HP ZBook with 13th Gen intel i9. The battery lasts forever without ANY thought. On previous Windows laptops I had to keep an eye on the battery, or make sure it's in power saving mode, or make sure all the background processes aren't running or whatever. My Macbook just lasts forever.
My work laptop will literally struggle to last 2 hours doing any actual work. That involves running IDEs, compiling code, browsing the web, etc. I've done the same on my Macbook on a personal level and it barely makes a dent in the battery.
I feel like the battery performance is definitely down to the hardware. Apple Silicon is an incredible innovation. But the general responsiveness of the OS has to be down to Windows being god-awful. I don't understand how a top of the line desktop can still feel sluggish versus even an M1 Macbook. When I'm running intensive applications like games or compiling code on my desktop, it's rapid. But it never actual feels fast doing day to day things. I feel like that's half the problem. Windows just FEELS so slow all the time. There's no polish.
My work MBP also can drain the battery in a couple hours of light use. But that's because of FireEye / Microsoft Defender. FireEye has a bug where it pegs the CPU at 100% indefinitely and needs to be killed to stop its infinite loop. Defender hates when a git checkout changes 30,000 files and uses up all my battery (but I can't monitor this because I can't view the processes).
It’s always the corporate wares that caused the issues, in my case it’s crowdstrike and zscaler. Even with these wares I can last a full day with my M1 pro, I only notice the battery was drained to 0 once when I went to vacation for a week, it’s never happened before these wares
I also have to run Defender on my MacBook at work.
If you have access to the Defender settings, I found it to be much better after setting an exclusion for the folder that you clone your git repositories to. You can also set exclusions for the git binary and your IDE.
Have you checked whether the work laptop's bad battery life is due to the OS, or due to the mountain of crapware security and monitoring stuff that many corporations put on all their computers?
I currently have a M3 Pro for a work laptop. The performance is fine, but the battery life is not particularly impressive. It often hits low battery after just 2-3 hours without me doing anything particularly CPU-intensive, and sometimes drains the battery from full to flat while sitting closed in a backpack overnight. I'm pretty sure this is due to the corporate crapware, not any issues with Apple's OS, though it's difficult to prove.
I've tended to think lately that all of the OSes are basically fine when set up reasonably well, but can be brought to their knees by a sufficient amount of low-quality corporate crapware.
Part of why Windows feels sluggish is because a lot of the components in many Windows machines are dogshit - especially storage. Even the old M2 is at 1400 MB/s write speed [2], M5 is at 6068 MB/s [2]. Meanwhile in the Windows world, supposed "gamer" laptops struggle to get above 3 GB/s [3]. And on top of that, on Apple devices the storage is directly attached to the SoC - as far as I know, no PCIe, no nothing, just dumb NAND. That alone eliminates a lot of latency, and communication data paths are direct as well, with nothing pesky like sockets or cables degrading signal quality and requiring link training and whatnot.
That M2 MBA however, it only feels sluggish at > 400 Chrome tabs open because only then swapping becomes a real annoyance.
> Part of why Windows feels sluggish is because a lot of the components in many Windows machines are dogshit - especially storage.
Except that you can replace Windows with Linux and suddenly it doesn't feel like dogshit anymore. SSDs are fast enough that they should be adding zero perceived latency for ordinary day-to-day operation. In fact, Linux still runs great on a pure spinning disk setup, which is something no other OS can manage today.
Hmm, for most desktop stuff, you're still limited to random access, where even if leagues above HDD, the NVMe still suck compared to sequential. It's sad that intel killed Optane/3D X-point, because those are mych better at random workloads and they had still lower latencies than the latest NVMe (not by much anymore).
I don't understand why Optane hasn't been revived already for modern AI datacenter workloads. Being able to augment and largely replace system RAM across the board with something cheaper (though not as cheap as NAND, and more power-hungry too) ought to be a huge plus, even if the technology isn't suitable for replacing HBM or VRAM due to bulk/power constraints.
Windows laptops have been pretty much exclusively NVMe for years. The 2.5" SATA form factor was a waste of space that laptop OEMs were very happy to be rid of, first with mSATA then with M.2 using SATA or NVMe. NVMe finished displacing SATA years ago, when the widespread availability of hardware supporting the NVMe Host Memory Buffer feature meant that entry-level NVMe SSDs could be both faster and cheaper than the good SATA SSDs. Most of the major SSD vendors discontinued their M.2 SATA SSDs long ago, indicating that demand for that product segment had collapsed.
Apple silicon is very fast per size/watt. The mind blowing thing is the macbook air that has weighs very little, doesn't have a fan, and feels competitive with top of the line desktop pcs.
My M1 MacBook Air is honestly the best laptop I’ve ever owned. Still snappy and responsive years after release. Fantastic machine. But I’m starting to crave an M5 Air…
I appreciate your helping to strengthen my resolve. More importantly, my wife thanks you as well. That said, the increased RAM available on the new models is really what I want. I have lots of programs open simultaneously.
I'm on an M1. I talk myself out of upgrading by remembering that I after a few hours of happiness my actual day-to-day experience won't noticably change.
Yea, that’s what I have been telling myself. The 16 GB of RAM I have on the M1 is starting to be a limiting factor now. If the RAM was upgradable, I would do that and probably keep the M1.
If you’re happy with the M1 performance, you could look into getting a used M1/2/3 mini a run some stuff via ssh? Much cheaper, and maybe even much better.
Yea, I’ve thought about getting an M4 refurb or used off EBay once the M5 line comes out completely and Apple stops selling M4s. I have an old x86-based Mac Mini that serves as the family media server and backup server. I’ll need to upgrade that at some point to Apple Silicon as Apple stops support for x86. As is, Apple dropped support for it with MacOS 26, so just some security updates to Sequoia from here on. That said, I’m not a fan of Liquid Glass, so I don’t really care for the time being, but eventually I’ll have to upgrade. I tend to buy a lot of refurb Macs and run them into the ground before I upgrade, often pushing them to full EOL.
I looked into this for the M1 MBA and it had the exact same performance at full load as the MBP...for 7 minutes. Then the thermal throttling hits and it slows down. I'm not sure what the time limit is for newer models. Regardless, the MBA's aren't offered with Pro/Ultra chips, which I desire (and would thermally throttle much sooner than 7 minutes).
My recommendation to friends asking about MBP / MBA is entirely based on whether they do anything that will load the CPU for more than 7 minutes. For me, I need the fans. I even use Macs Fan Control[0], a 3rd party utility, to control the fans for some of my workflows - pegging the fans to 100% to pre-cool the CPU between loads can help a lot.
I edit tons of raw images and 4K video like it’s going out of style.
My used M1 mba is the fastest computer I’ve ever used. If a video render is going to take more than 7 minutes I walk away or just do something in another app anyway. The difference of a few mini means nothing.
I've got a cheap laptop stand with built-in fans that blow against the bottom case of my MBA. With my previous M1 and current M3 the stand keeps them from thermal throttling for longer periods. Most of the time it's completely unnecessary but I use it occasionally when doing long duration compiles or other long term heavy loads. Even without using the stand the tasks would complete in a reasonable amount of time, it just gives me a few extra minutes of "full blast" which is often all I need.
I’ve been amazed that while it absolutely uses a ton of battery, so has to be plugged in, my kid is able to play 3D online games with me using my old M1 MacBook Air. Not top of the line stuff (and had to change the resolution to 1440x900), but still. It gets hot, but doesn’t thermal throttle. I had half expected it to start throttling but we played for 3 hours last night with no issues.
What’s surprising is it DOES throttle using Discord with video after an hour or so, unless the battery is already full (I’m guessing it tries to charge which generates a lot of heat). You get way less thermals with a full battery and it using power instead of discharging/charging the battery during heavy usage.
Apple chips are very good especially for their power envelope but let's not get ahead of ourselves, the only way a Macbook Air feels competitive with a top-of-the-line desktop is if you're not actually utilizing the full sustained power of the desktop. There's a reason why Apple sells much bigger Max/Ultra chips with active cooling.
I do believe Apple are still the fastest single-core (M5, A19 Pro, and M3 Ultra leading), which still matters for a shocking amount of my workloads. But only the M5 has any noticeable gap vs Intel (~16%). Also the rankings are a bit gamed because AMD and Intel put out a LOT of SKU's that are nearly the same product, so whenever they're "winning" on a benchmark they take up a bunch of slots right next to eachother even though they're all basically the exact same chip.
Also, all the top nearly 50 multi-core benchmarks are taken up by Epyc and Xeon chips. For desktop/laptop chips that aren't Threadripper, Apple still leads with the M3 Ultra 32-core in multi-core passmark benchmark. The usual caveats of benchmarks not being representative of any actual workload still apply, of course.
And Apple does lag behind in multi-core benchmarks for laptop chips - The M3 Ultra is not offered in a laptop form-factor, but it does beat every AMD/Intel laptop chip as well in multicore benchmarks.
No, the AMD headliners still dominate for single-core performance[1]. Even if you normalize for similar/"same" chips; which really just means you have five cores each generation: AMD's, Intel's, Apple's, and ARM Cortex-A and Cortex-X.
Obviously it's an Apple-to-Oranges (pardon the pun) comparison since the AMD options don't need to care about the power envelope nearly as much; and the comparison gets more equal when normalizing for Apple's optimized domain (power efficiency), but the high-end AMD laptop chips still edge it out.
But then this turns into some sort of religious war, where people want to assume that their "god" should win at everything. It's not, the Apple chips are great; amazing even, when considering they're powering laptops/phones for 10+ hours at a time in smaller chassis than their competitors. But they still have to give in certain metrics to hit that envelope.
I can't find which benchmarks those scores are from. It looks like sometimes they might have been comparing gaming FPS to AMDs paired with Nvidia 5090's? Something feels off about the site you linked - the methodology and scores aren't even cursorily explained, and gaming scores don't make sense. The 5600X doesn't even have an iGPU and the GFX card they had to have paired with it isn't listed.
What does "single core gaming performance" even mean for a CPU that doesn't have an iGPU? How could that not be a category error to compare against Apple Silicon?
>What does "single core gaming performance" even mean for a CPU that doesn't have an iGPU?
Just a guess, but I would interpret it to mean how fast the CPU can issue commands to the GPU (which is usually, though not always, done in a single thread). For example, that could be measured by choosing a graphically lightweight game at minimum settings together with the best possible GPU and measuring the framerate. I.e. Making sure the bottleneck is the CPU, how high does the framerate go?
Whether the package includes a GPU or not is irrelevant, because what is being compared is the CPU part of the package, not the GPU. Whether they both happen to live within the same package or even the same die is irrelevant.
Even at the time of announcement M5 was not the fastest chip. Not even on single core benchmark where apple usually shines due to the design choice of having fewer but more powerful cores (AMD for examples does the opposite). For example on geekbench Core i9-14900KS and Core Ultra 9 285K were faster.
The distance was not huge, maybe 3%. You can obviously pick and choose your benchmarks until you find one where "your" CPU happens to be the best.
Apple leads all of these in single core, by a significant margin. Even at geekbench.com (3398 for AMD 9950X3D vs 3235 for the 14900KS vs ~4000 for various Apple chips)
I'm not sure I could find a single core benchmark it would lose no matter how hard I tried...
The cores are. Nothing is beating a M4/M5 on single CPU performance, and per-cycle nothing is even particularly close.
At the whole-chip level, there are bigger devices from the x86 vendors which will pull ahead on parallel benchmarks. And Apple's unfortunate allergy to effective cooling techniques (like, "faster fans move more air") means that they tend to throttle on chip-scale loads[1].
But if you just want to Run One Thing really fast, which even today still correlates better to "machine feels fast" than parallel loads, Apple is the undisputed king.
[1] One of the reasons Geekbench 6, which controversially includes cooling pauses, looks so much better for Apple than version 5 did.
For laptops at least, I appreciate not having fans that sound like a helicopter. I guess for Mac Mini and Mac Studio having more fan noise is acceptable (maybe a switch would be nice). One of the things that I love about my Air is there is zero fan noise all the time. Yes, it throttles, and 99% of the time I don’t notice and don’t care. Yes, I know there are workloads where it would be very noticeable and I would care, but I don’t personally run too many CPU bound tasks.
Bigger fans can move a lot more air while being less noisy, so if you care about a silent profile for any given amount of work the Mac Studio (or the Mac Mini if you don't need the full power of a Studio) is the best choice.
Same. It’s always disappointing when otherwise promising competing laptops turn out to be considerably more noisy if you’re doing anything more intense than using MS Paint.
It’s probably the single most common corner to cut in x86 laptops. Manufacturers love to shove hot chips into a chassis too thin for them and then toss in whatever cheap tiny-whiny-fan cooling solution they happen to have on hand. Result: laptop sounds like a jet engine when the CPU is being pushed.
Even something like MS Paint can turn a laptop in to a aircraft.
The issue is actually very simple. In order to gain more performance, manufactures like AMD / Intel for a long time have been in a race for the highest frequency but if you have some knowhow in hardware, you know that higher frequency = more power draw the higher you clock.
So you open your MS Paint, and ... your CPU pushes to 5.2Ghz, and it gets fed 15W on a single core. This creates a heat spike in the sensors, and your fans on laptops, all too often are set to react very fast. And VROOOOEEEEM goes your fan as the CPU Temp sensor hits 80C on a single core, just for a second. But wait, your MS Paint is open, and down goes the fan. And repeat, repeat, repeat ...
Notice how Apple focused on running their CPUs no higher then 4.2Ghz or something... So even if their CPU boosts to 100%, that thermal peak will be maybe 7W.
Now combine that with Apple using a much more tolerant fan / temp sensor setup. They say: 100C is perfectly acceptable. So when your CPU boosts, its not dumping 15W, but only 7W. And because the fan reaction threshold is so high, the fans do not react on any Apple product. Unless you run a single or MT process for a LONG time.
And even then, the fans will only ramp up slowly if your 100C has been going on for a few seconds, and while yes, your CPU will be thermal throttling while the fans spin up. But you do not feel this effect.
That is the real magic of Apple. Yes, their CPUs are masterpieces at how they get so much performance from a lower frequency, but the real kicker is their thermal / fan profile design.
The wife has a old Apple clone laptop from 2018. Thing is for 99.9% of the time silent. No fans, nothing. Because Xiaomi used the same tricks on that laptop, allowing it to boost to the max, without triggering the fan ramping. And when it triggers with a long running process, they use a very low fan rpm until it goes way too high. I had laptops with the same CPU from other brands in the same time periode, and they all had annoying fan profiles. That showed me that a lot of Apple magic is good design around the hardware/software/fan.
But ironically, that magic has been forgotten in later models by Xiaomi ... Tsk!
Manufactures think: Its better if millions of people suffer from more noise, then if we need to have a few thousand laptops that die / get damaged, from too much heat. So ramp up the fans!!!
And as a cherry on top, Apple uses custom fans designed to emit noise in less annoying frequencies and when multiple fans are in play, slightly varies their speeds to avoid harmonizing. So even when they do run, they're not perceived as being as loud at most speeds.
This seems like intuition fed from 8+ years ago and a HN culture of mac fetishism. It's just not like that. You can find some loud gaming laptops. And sure, occasionally there's an individual device with outlier fan behavior. But really the PC laptop world is pretty calm and boring these days. No, nothing goes "VROOOOEEEM". Chromebooks are even better.
You can mostly fix this by running your CPU in "battery saving" mode. CPUs should basically never boost to the 5GHz+ range unless they're doing something that's absolutely latency-critical. It's a huge waste of energy for a negligible increase in performance.
> Notice how Apple focused on running their CPUs no higher then 4.2Ghz or something... So even if their CPU boosts to 100%, that thermal peak will be maybe 7W.
If you max out your processor it will be more than happy to draw 20W+
> It doesn't really make much sense to compare per-cycle performance across microarchitectures as there are multiple valid trade-offs.
That's true in principle, but IMHO a little too evasive. In point of fact Apple 100% won this round. Their wider architecture is actually faster than the competition in an absolute sense even at the deployed clock rates. There's really no significant market where you'd want to use anything different for CPU compute anywhere. Datacenters would absolutely buy M5 racks if they were offered. M5 efficiency cores are better than Intel's or Zen 5c every time they're measured too.
Just about the only spaces where Apple is behind[1] are die size and packaging: their cores take a little more area per benchmark point, and they're still shipping big single dies. And they finance both of those shortcomings with much higher per-part margins.
Intel and AMD have moved hard into tiled architectures and it seems to be working out for them. I'd expect Apple to do the same soon.
[1] Well, except the big elephant in the room that "CPU Performance Doesn't Matter Much Anymore". Consumer CPUs are fast enough and have been for years now, and the stuff that feels slow is on the GPU or the cloud these days. Apple's in critical danger of being commoditized out of its market space, but then that's true of every premium vendor throughout history.
Oh. Apple won this and the last few rounds for sure. They definitely picked the right microarchitecture and delivered masterfully.
Early on personally I had doubts they could scale their CPU to high end desktop performance, but obviously it hasn't been an issue.
My nitpick was purely about using clock per cycle as a performance metric, which is as much nonsense as comparing GHz: AFAIK Apple cpus still top at 4.5 GHz, while the AMD/Intel reach 6Ghz, so obviously the architectures are optimized for different target frequencies (which makes sense: the power costs of a high GHz design are astronomical).
And as an microarchitecture nerd I'm definitely interested in how they can implement such a wide architecture, but wide-ness per-se is not a target.
I don't get your first line. When people talk about Apple's core speeds they're not talking about cycles per instruction or something, they're talking about single-thread performance on a benchmark like Geekbench. Geekbench runs various real-world code and it's the gross throughput that is measured, and it's there that Apple cores shine.
Don’t worry, my new M4 doesn’t feel much faster either due to all the corporate crapware. Since Windows Defender got ported to Mac it’s become terrible in I/O and overall responsiveness. Any file operations will consume an entire core or two on Defender processes.
My personal M1 feels just as fast as the work M4 due to this.
I was impressed with my M4 mini when I got it a year ago but sometime after the Liquid Glass update it is now: beachball… beachball… beachball… reboot… beachball… beachball… Reminds me of the bad old days of Win XP.
How much RAM do you have? That seems to be the main thing that slows down my MacBooks (original launch-day 16GB M1 MBP and 32 GB M2 Pro). The M1 CPU is finally starting to show its age for some things, but the M2 Pro is really only RAM limited in perceived speed for me.
I did. On equal hardware, in same order, with same windows version, on clean installs. ‘npm install’ is very file-heavy and Windows with corpware hates small files especially with the .js extension
Nowhere in the submission or even the comment you replied to did anyone say "fastest". The incredibly weird knee-jerk defensiveness by some is bizarre.
It was a discussion about how the P cores are left ready to speedily respond to input via the E cores satisfying background needs, in this case talking specifically about Apple Silicon because that's the writer's interest. But of course loads of chips have P and E cores, for the same reason.
Replaced a good Windows machine (Ryzen 5? 32 Gb) and I have a late intel Mac and a Linux workstation (6 core Ryzen 5, 32 Gb).
Obviously the Mac is newer. But wow. It's faster even on things that CPU shouldn't matter, like going through a remote samba mount through our corporate VPN.
- Much faster than my intel Mac
- Faster than my Windows
- Haven't noticed any improvements over my Linux machines, but with my current job I no longer get to use them much for desktop (unfortunately).
Of course, while I love my Debian setup, boot up is long on my workstation; screensaver/sleep/wake up is a nightmare on my entertainment box (my fault, but common!). The Mac just sleeps/wakes up with no problems.
The Mac (smallest air) is also by far the best laptop Ive ever had from a mobility POV. Immediate start up, long battery, decent enough keyboard (but If rather sacrifice for a longer keypress)
Part of it is that the data pipelines in the Mac are far more efficient with its soldered memory and enhanced buses. You would have to use something like Halo Strix on the PC side see similar performance upticks at a somewhat affordable price bracket. Things like Samba/VPN mounting should not matter much (unless your mac network interface is significantly better), but you might see a general snappiness improvement. Heavy compute tasks will be a give and take with modern PC hardware, but Apple is still the king of efficiency.
I still use an M1 MB Air for work mostly docked... the machine is insane for what it can still do, it sips power and has a perfect stability track record for me. I also have a Halo Strix machine that is the first machine that I can run linux and feel like I'm getting a "mac like" experience with virtually no compromises.
I've used Linux as a daily driver for 6 months and I am now back to my M1 Max for the past month.
I didn't find any reply mentioning the easy of use, benefits and handy things the mac does and Linux won't. Spotlight, Photos app with all the face recognition and general image index, contact sync, etc. Takes ages to setup those on Linux and with macs everything just works with an Apple account. So I wonder if Linux had to do all this background stuff, if it would be able to run smoothly as Macs run this days.
For context: I was running Linux for 6 months for the first time in 10 years (which I was daily driving macs). My M1 Max still beats my full tower gaming PC, which I was using linux at. I've used Windows and Linux before, and Windows for gaming too. My Linux setup was very snappy without any corporate stuff. But my office was getting warm because of the PC. My M1 barely turn on the fans, even with large DB migrations and other heavy operation during software development.
I think you should spend some time looking at actual laptop review coverage before asking questions like this.
There are dozens of outlets out there that run synthetic and real world benchmarks that answer these questions.
Apple’s chips are very strong on creative tasks like video transcoding, they have the best single core performance as well as strong multi-core performance. They also have top tier power efficiency, battery life, and quiet operation, which is a lot of what people look for when doing corporate tasks.
Depending on the chip model, the graphics performance is impressive for the power draw, but you can get better integrated graphics from Intel Panther Lake, and you can get better dedicated class graphics from Nvidia.
Some outlets like Just Josh tech on YouTube are good at demonstrating these differences.
I haven’t used a laptop other than a mac in 10 years. I remember being extremely frustrated with the Intel macs. What I hated most was getting into video meetings, which would make the Intel CPU sound like a 747 taxiing.
The switch from a top spec, new Intel Mac to a base model M1 Macbook Air was like a breath of fresh air. I still use that 5 year old laptop happily because it was such a leap forward in performance. I dont recall ever being happy with a 5 year old device.
I think you're bringing up a great question here. If you ask a random person on the street "is your laptop fast", the answer probably has more to do with what software that person is running, than what hardware.
My Apple silicon laptop feels super fast because I just open the lid and it's running. That's not because the CPU ran instructions super fast, it's because I can just close the lid and the battery lasts forever.
Windows can boot pretty fast these days, I'm always surprised by it. I run LTSC on mine though, so zero bloat. Both my Macs and Windows LTSC have quick boots nowadays, I'm not sure I could say which is faster, but it might be the Windows.
It can boot and show a desktop fast after logging in. However, after that it seems still to be doing a lot in the background. If I try to open up Firefox, or any other app, immediately after I see the desktop it will take forever to load. When I let the desktop sit for a minute and then open Firefox it opens instantly.
Presumably a whole bunch of services are still being (lazy?) loaded.
On the other hand, my cachyos install takes a bit longer to boot, but after it jumps to the desktop all apps that are autostart just jump into view instantly.
Most time on boot seems to be spent on initializing drives and finding the right boot drive and load it.
This is a metric I never really understood. how often are people booting? The only time I ever reboot a machine is if I have to. For instance the laptop I'm on right now has an uptime of just under 100 days.
My Mac - couldn’t tell you, I just close the lid. My work laptop? Probably every day, as it makes its own mind up what it does when you close the lid. Even the “shut down” button in the start menu often restarts the machine in win 11.
My work desktop? Every day, and it takes > 30 seconds to go from off to desktop, and probably another minute or two for things like Docker to decide that they’ve actually started up.
Back in the bad old days of Intel Macs, I had a full system crash just as I was about to get up to give a presentation in class.
It rebooted and got to desktop, restoring all my open windows and app state, before I got to the podium (it was a very small room).
The Mac OS itself seems to be relatively fast to boot, the desktop environment does a good job recovering from failures, and now the underlying hardware is screaming fast.
I should never have to reboot, but in the rare instances when it happens, being fast can be a difference maker.
What hardware? Up until a recent BIOS update my X870 board 9950X3D spent 3 minutes of a cold boot training the RAM… then booting up the OS in 4-8 seconds, so my Mac would always win these comparisons. Now it still takes a while at first boot, but subsequent reboots are snappy.
Something else to consider: chromebook on arm boots significantly faster than dito intel. Yes, nowadays Mediateks latest cpus wipe the floor with intel N-whatever, but it has been like this since the early days when the Arm version was relatively underpowered.
My guess would be that ARM Chromebooks might run substantially more cut-down firmware? While intel might need a more full-fat EFI stack? But I haven't used either and am just speculating.
You can notice that memory bandwidth advantage even in workloads like photo editing and code compilation. That and the performance cores reserved for foreground compute, on top of the usual "Linux sucks at swap" (was it fixed? I haven't enabled swap on my Linux machines for ages by now), does make a day-to-day difference in my usage.
I love apple and mainly use one for personal use, but apple users consistently overrate how fast their machines are. I used to see sentiment like "how will nvidia ever catch up with apples unified silicon approach" a few years ago. But if you just try nvidia vs apple and compare on a per dollar level, nvidia is so obviously the winner.
So he gradually increases the energy transfer from the weight to the arm over the course of the drop. But that arm swinging around must have a lot of energy loss due to friction and air resistance.
This loss will rise exponentially with the speed increase right? So in a sense he is holding his energy budget in a very inefficient phase, with high losses.
Two things support this. A) he spent a lot of time trying to make the arm more arodynamic. B) The spool widening at the end, which is essentially changing back down gears, applying more torque, right at the end when you want speed.
An alternative would be to drop the weight, and let it fall unrestricted until it gets to it's highest speed (this would minimise friction and air resistance) and only at the end of its fall, transfer the energy into the arm.
In this case the arm would only need to rotate 180 degrees or whatever, and not waste energy rotating right?
And then, to take this a step further to make this work there would need to be some flexibility or elasticity in the system to take energy from the high speed falling weight to the arm.
And what you have ended up with is something that looks like.... A whip!